Educational Psychologist & Child Psychologist Haido Vogiatzi has a passion for working with children and has in-depth knowledge of developmental psychology which she approaches through neurodiversity.
We're in Larissa, just a few days before she returns to Surrey, England, where she's lived and worked since 2016, and we're having a conversation about autism and neurodiversity, diagnoses that show 1 in 5 children have a deviation from developmental milestones, about what fascinates and excites her about the human brain and behavior. A very charming conversation for me too, with points that surprise me, as Haido talks, explains and sometimes gets emotional.
So what is neurodiversity, I ask because I always like to start with the "definitions" that give us the context of the discussion...
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"A different way of thinking, neurobiologically diverse I would say that affects the person cognitively, socially and emotionally. How the surrounding environment listens to the needs of people with neurodiversity will determine their development and progress... We must stop talking about "dysfunctional" and "disturbed minds" just because some behaviors, symptoms and characteristics deviate from typical development. Neurodiversity is valuable to society! It helps us push the boundaries of "normal" and become creative.
For Haido, the "key" to the whole thing is acceptance.
"I see children and adolescents diagnosed with Autism every day who are introverted, have difficulty managing difficult situations, are perfectionists... These are symptoms of their neurodivergence that persist over time... I will not focus on diagnosing them with Autism, ADHD, etc., on the contrary I explore their personality, evaluate it, listen to their wants, desires and needs, together we find solutions and strategies that will help them learn to manage difficult situations and above all to feel that they belong somewhere. Most of the children I work with are essentially looking for acceptance and inclusion in the social world."
Neurodiverse people seek acceptance and accommodations. We should eliminate the fear of the label that creates a social stigma. If we were to see the spectrum of autism with the medical-pathological model, one would say that we are talking about a pandemic... 1 in 5 children are neurodiverse. The bottom line is the psycho-education of everyone around the child, that will do the job.
Explain to me, what method do you work with children?
I follow the person-centered approach combined with developmental psychology. I focus on the child's personality as a whole. For example, I don't just look at the learning part and leave out the emotions. I want the child in school to feel free to make mistakes and learn from them, to love himself, to "embrace" his difficulties and develop mental resilience. Learning is an emotional process for the child and needs to be emotionally motivated. I also explore whether there is deviation from typical developmental milestones in relation always to "context", and when I say context I mean family, school and society.
At this point, I should clarify that I work a lot with parents. There are cases where I work more with the parents and less with the child because they also need psychological support. If, for example, their child has received a diagnosis of Autism, I help them feel that they have a child with special abilities, we do not focus on the "label" but on their personality and the acceptance of their neurodiversity... From the first consultation with the parents, we discuss the plan that we will follow. It is the so-called agreed action plan, where we decide together how we will work, whether I will get involved with the child or the school; the whole initial plan works in a short-term framework, in the logic of the "plan do review" where every one to two months there is an evaluation of the previous interval and the strategy is redrawn. We work step by step.
If, for example, a child diagnosed with autism has a very good memory, but has difficulties with writing and reading, we will create a whole plan based on these specific elements to improve them. If we have a child with difficulties in social integration, we will organize games in groups. Already, schools in England have special programs from the education system itself and the special education coordinators who enter the classrooms, see the needs of each child and come up with the support plan for the special programs they have and call the educational psychologists to discuss and to assess children's difficulties. I also work a lot with teachers on individualized and group intervention programs in the classroom, etc.
You mentioned that you are not in the business of diagnosing…
Yes, I do not focus on the diagnosis. I deal with the character and behavior of the child with any diagnosis, which I do not see as a problem person who is an exception.
I'll give you another example... Let's say - this is a real event that I describe to you in an emotional coaching cycle - that two children argue a lot at school during the break. You ask the child who is within normal milestones and he tells you that the other one, who has a diagnosis of autism, pushed him too hard with his hands. According to the neurodiversity model, you are not looking at the event as a classic case of a child with autism behaving, but you are looking to identify why he behaved in this way. In this particular case, the little boy told me that he likes to apply force with his hands and pushed his classmate to see how it felt. So you see that the little boy has a sensory need, to put strength in his hands, and after you identify it, you look to find how to adjust it so that there is relaxation, which on a second level will reduce what we initially see as aggressive behavior. So what do you do? You don't target it but you design game programs and exercises that will help this sensory need.
Do you think that the school environment has adapted and assimilated this culture?
No, as much as it should be. If for example in a class 20% children show neurodiversity showing difficulties in language but special abilities in music why should this be an exception to the rule? But we want the exception!
Schools need to stop focusing only on maths, language arts and physics and perfect grades! Where are the arts? Why not use music in language teaching in this case if you see that 20% has a talent for music and better assimilates everything related to rhythm?
Doesn't it make sense that children with talents and skills, the ones we label as exceptional, get bored? We should be glad to have such children in our class.
The University of Colorado Temple Grandin animal science professor who was diagnosed with autism and did not speak until age 4 and thought in pictures experienced rejection from schools. He said the following: "The world needs all kinds of minds, it needs people on the Autism spectrum."
What do you think is the biggest problem of these children? The acceptance;
Low self-esteem and lack of self-confidence stemming from a low sense of social acceptance of their difference.
Now, regarding the issue of acceptance there are quite large differences between Greece and England. Children in England and their families are not particularly upset when they receive a diagnosis of autism. I remember the case of a 19-year-old who told me about how happy he was when he was diagnosed with autism. He felt relieved, he understood what was causing his chronic feeling of not belonging to the group, he felt lonely at school and had difficulty fitting in with the other children.
You said earlier that I was very impressed. That 1 in 5 children are neurodiverse. Is there an increase and why? Or has it always been this way and now we are all more involved and have the diagnoses?
It is a fact that research and assessment 'tools' have evolved so much that we learn to spot difficulties early; consequently we have an increase in neurodiversity. The point is to learn to think "out of the box" and to accept the different. I think children are the best judges a lot of times. For example, my son has a classmate with autism. I deliberately asked him at one point to tell me what his classmate's difficulty is. He told me he has nothing, just some anger management issues. His thought did not go to the "label"... but to character and behavior.
If the percentages of neurodiverse children are so high and at the same time great importance is given through educational programs to the acceptance of diversity, how can we explain the phenomenon of simultaneously talking about an increase in bulling?
Bullying, to clarify this, has always existed. However, research shows an increase. I think that society is going through a big crisis, in people's relationships, communication, acceptance of the different in any form.
In Greek society, for example, we have not learned to live with "different people". The financial crisis and the lockdowns brought the whole issue more strongly to the surface. People find it difficult to accept the different. He has learned in 1,2,3, ordinary, average, volley. In this sense, society itself is autistic!
We fear the different and the different, we are strongly concerned with what people will say. We cannot understand that things can be done otherwise.
I could tell you that I too have experienced a trauma of acceptance of difference... a feeling of "not belonging". I finished pedagogy in Greece, worked and then went to England for further education and returned in 2007 as a psychologist. It seemed very strange to everyone... How did I become a psychologist from an educator? How can I be both? People had learned that you could only be and do one thing, have only one quality. All this caused me embarrassment not to say discomfort at times. And it seemed really strange to me because in England then - now this has changed - to do educational psychology you had to have classroom experience. I left again in 2016, I couldn't realize and combine all that I wanted here... Isn't this also an example of non-acceptance of diversity?
Think now how all these neurodiverse people might experience it...
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*Haido Vogiatzi is an educational Psychologist & Child Psychologist, registered Psychologist at HCPC, Chartered Psychologist BPS. She holds a EuroPsy certification (European certificate in Psychology) of the European Federation of Psychologists' Associations and is registered in the European Register of Psychologists. She has many years of experience as an Educational Psychologist and provides psychological support services to children, young people, families and schools. She is registered with the Health and Care Professionals Council (HCPC) in the UK as a psychologist. He holds two postgraduate degrees in Educational Psychology (Institute of Education, University of London as well as the University of Sheffield) and has been recognized as a Certified Psychologist by the British Psychological Society and the Ministry of Health in Greece. He also holds a degree in early childhood education from the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki and a QTA (Teacher Certification) title in the United Kingdom. She is passionate about working with children and has an in-depth knowledge of developmental psychology. He worked in the Educational Psychology Service in the Borough of Brent in North West London as well as in the private sector in Greece. He also worked in the Educational Psychology Service at Surrey County Council. She also works privately offering psychological services for children, youth, families and schools. She works closely with children, teenagers, young people, families and schools in primary and secondary education, especially schools and colleges.